In this episode of "The Outdoor Station," host Bob Cartwright interviews Glen Van Peski, founder of Gossamer Gear and a pioneer in ultralight backpacking. Glen shares his journey into ultralight backpacking, starting from sewing his own gear to founding Gossamer Gear. He discusses the evolution of backpacking gear, emphasising the importance of reducing pack weight for a more enjoyable experience. Glen also introduces his new book, "Take Less, Do More," which offers life lessons from ultralight backpacking. The episode provides practical advice for new backpackers and highlights the significance of simplicity and intentional generosity.
In this episode of "The Outdoor Station," host Bob Cartwright interviews Glen Van Peski, founder of Gossamer Gear and a pioneer in ultralight backpacking. Glen shares his journey into ultralight backpacking, starting from sewing his own gear to founding Gossamer Gear. He discusses the evolution of backpacking gear, emphasising the importance of reducing pack weight for a more enjoyable experience. Glen also introduces his new book, "Take Less, Do More," which offers life lessons from ultralight backpacking. The episode provides practical advice for new backpackers and highlights the significance of simplicity and intentional generosity.
- The evolution of ultralight backpacking gear and its impact on outdoor experiences.
- Glen Van Peski's journey and contributions to the outdoor gear industry.
- The importance of reducing pack weight for enjoyable backpacking.
- Practical advice for new backpackers on selecting and evaluating gear.
- The significance of learning gradually about necessary gear for outdoor adventures.
- The role of technology in modern outdoor gear and its weight implications.
- The value of map reading skills in conjunction with smartphone navigation.
- Insights from Glen's new book, "Take Less, Do More," and its life lessons.
- The charitable aspect of Glen's book profits being donated to the Pacific Crest Trail Association.
- The themes of perspective and intentional generosity as key takeaways from Glen's experiences.
Voice Over 00:00:10 You're listening to a download from the outdoor station. Co.Uk. Number 575.
Bob Cartwright 00:00:25 Hello and welcome back to the outdoors station. I'm your host, Bob Cartwright, and I've been producing self-powered outdoor related content for podcast fans since 2005. Primarily, it's been to share knowledge and information, plus to inspire those heading out on adventures of any nature to be better equipped and ultimately enjoy the journey more. Those of you who have dipped in and out of these podcasts over the last 20 odd years will have heard me talk many times about legends in the outdoors world, who have pioneered many of the big changes in gear which we all benefit from today. However, those new to backpacking and camping generally will probably have never heard the names of Ray Jardine, Henry Shire's Glen Van Pesky, Brian Vargo, even our own Chris Townsend and Graham Thompson people whose experience and influence on design have a opened our eyes and minds to enjoying outdoor life more through carrying less weight, and b educating the manufacturing world to keep it simple that less is, in fact, more.
Bob Cartwright 00:01:46 And my conversation today is with one of those legends, Glen Van Penske, founder of Gossamer Gear, one of this select club of key figures who helped educate us to start questioning everything the shops sold us well way back in the 90s. A little bit of history. When I started backpacking as a child back in the 70s. Gear was still very much influenced by army. Surplus steel frames were used in rucksacks, cooking gear was still aluminium based mess tins and variations on it. And of course, you could get anything you liked clothing wise as long as it came in green. In the 80s and 90s, aluminium frames were being used in rucksacks instead of steel, and gear started to be available in anything other than green. By the time the 90s came along, brands started to get influenced by new materials, adding more and more features and weight to products. Now, I mentioned this to give you some context for the conversation you're about to hear. What Glenn and this small handful of pioneers did was coincide with getting the message out via this newfangled internet thingy out to the masses.
Bob Cartwright 00:03:18 So instead of slogging our guts out carrying heavy loads, we were educated to think that there might be other options. If you're new to backpacking and camping, you'll probably still going through the same growing pains that we did back then carrying too much, getting hot and sweaty within ten minutes of leaving the car, wondering what on earth you can get rid of, and ultimately not enjoying your adventure as much as you hoped. Which neatly brings me on to Glenn's new book and the subject for this conversation. Take less, do more surprising life lessons in generosity, gratitude, and curiosity from an ultra light backpacker. Plus, if you keep listening right to the end, I've got four copies to give away.
Glen Van Peski 00:04:18 the book is about, you know, as I worked over the last, depending on how you count, you know, half a century to lighten my, pack weight. I realized that some of those lessons that I was learning applied not just to backcountry, but to the rest of life. And so the book is, is taking those lessons that I learned from lightning my load and applying them how I applied them to the rest of life.
Bob Cartwright 00:04:45 Okay, so going back to the very beginning, obviously, I must remind listeners that we've actually spoken a few times over the years, and so we're sort of fully aware of each other, but for for people, perhaps listening that are completely unaware of of how the brand started. Could you just give us a bit of a an idea back story that brings it up to date?
Glen Van Peski 00:05:06 Sure.
Glen Van Peski 00:05:06 Well, I started sewing gear for myself. I mean, this is my mom was a firm believer that every kid should leave home, knowing how to do three things how to cook, how to bake, and how to sew. And so all three of us kids know how to do those and do them, you know, to different degrees to this day. and so this was back in the day when our, oldest son, Brian, joined Boy Scouts and I joined with him as an adult leader. my buddy Reed Miller read Ray Jardine's first book, The Pacific Crest Trail Hikers Handbook, and he got all excited about that, you know, then I read it and started getting interested in lightning load.
Glen Van Peski 00:05:47 You know, we looked at these scouts when they come into Boy Scouts or Young Boys, and we're loading them up with these huge loads. And I just wasn't very enjoyable.
Bob Cartwright 00:05:57 Just to help people. Obviously this was what, late 90s? Yeah.
Glen Van Peski 00:06:01 No good for frame reference. I forget to do that because it all kind of runs together at my age. yeah. And so I showed a pack. You know, I figured I when Brian and I were going on our first Sierra trek, it's like a weekend. Sierra's was backpacking, Sierra's was our our troops, our Boy Scout troops kind of capstone experience. And, so we went down to Rei, and, you know, all the gear I had for my youth was gone. Left back east. so we needed to kit up, and they they definitely sold us everything. It was just they just come out with the new internal frame packs and they said, oh, these things are great. You know, they move with your body out of yada, yada.
Glen Van Peski 00:06:45 And that thing weighed seven and a half pounds empty, which I, I, I'm still not convinced that was a the advancement over the old frame Kelty pack. I had when I was in Boy Scouts. But anyway, it was the latest and greatest. So we bought it along with the stoves and the sleeping bags and tents and all that stuff. And, my backpack was over £70 loaded for a week in the Sierra, which I can say those words, but I can't even wrap my head around that.
Bob Cartwright 00:07:14 Now, just looking up as your as you mentioned, that just to give people a frame of reference in the UK because obviously pounds is is is old money, old money as we would call it. So £7, £7 rucksack is, is just over three kilos and. Yeah. And the seven zero, good grief you must have been fit in those days. £70, was over 31 kilos. I've carried just over 20, and that almost killed me. So 31 kilos. Outrageous.
Glen Van Peski 00:07:44 Yeah.
Glen Van Peski 00:07:44 No, we have a picture in the book, actually, of, Brian and I on that Sierra trek. And, you know, the huge pack is towering over our heads, and, we just didn't know any better. But, you know, I started focusing on lightning, my gear, and that seven and a half pound pack loomed large as, like a probably the heaviest individual item. so I thought, well, let's see if I can do something about that. So I showed a pack and hiked with that and thought about improvements. And so add another pack and about the fourth pack. Got things got to where, you know, it was about a pound, which was a good advancement. And so I put the plans on the internet so other people could make the G4, as we called it, if they wanted to. And I, I kept getting calls from people saying, well, I don't, I don't know how to sew and I don't know anyone that knows how to sew.
Glen Van Peski 00:08:38 So could you make me a pack? And I'm working 70 hours a week at engineering. It's like, no, I can't make you a pack. But I got enough inquiries that I thought, well, I should find if I could get a few packs made for people. And that was kind of the start of, well, early days GBP gear.
Bob Cartwright 00:08:55 Yeah. Yeah, well, I remember having a G4 pack myself, so thank you very much for that. And to, to give people an idea that's 453g. So to give you an idea of, of comparing that to a lot of packs you'll find in the, in the high street, now you'd be looking well over a kilo. so, so yeah, it was impressive pack. And it was, it was a sill, Nigel, in fact. Yeah. There you are. He's showing it there. That's wonderful. There it is. So it's a sill nylon pack with mesh pocket either side, deep pocket either side, and a large front pocket as well.
Bob Cartwright 00:09:26 And that was about it, wasn't it? Really.
Glen Van Peski 00:09:29 Pretty simple. Pretty crude by today's standards. But, yeah. I mean, that's why the only way to pound that was.
Bob Cartwright 00:09:36 Absolutely. And it would carry what sort of, weight comfortably.
Glen Van Peski 00:09:42 I, you know, 25, say, you know, ten to 10 to 12 kilos, I would say.
Bob Cartwright 00:09:53 Okay. Okay. I had people.
Glen Van Peski 00:09:55 That carried 1415 kilos in it, but yeah, I was never I didn't find it comfortable that kind of way.
Bob Cartwright 00:10:02 And just to give people again, a sort of, a perspective about the time scale here. Late 90s, early into the early 2000. I read JJ Jardine's book as well, Beyond Backpacking, which I don't know, was, was that the first book recycled or was that a fresh book?
Glen Van Peski 00:10:18 It was a fresh book.
Glen Van Peski 00:10:20 a lot of the same material, obviously. but kind of more generalised, compared to focused on the Pacific Crest Trail.
Bob Cartwright 00:10:28 Yeah, yeah. I mean, the book's still available now, and it's certainly a book.
Bob Cartwright 00:10:31 If you're interested in making your life easier and carrying less, it will it will enable you to ask questions about everything that you carry. and this is obviously a philosophy that that you followed and continue to expand your ideas with gossamer gear when you know you're involved in designing the packs there.
Glen Van Peski 00:10:51 Yeah. And I'm still involved in design for recent, for example, our most recent tent at Gossamer Gear. The Whisperer was something that I designed for a bikepacking trip. I was doing, a thousand miles, so. 1400 kilometers or something like that. on the Great divide, bikepacking, mountain bike route. And I knew it was going to be buggy, so I needed something that had bug protection, but I wanted something lighter than than existing tents. And so I made a number of prototypes and Tyvek and then moved to DCF and finally got something that I liked and used on that trip. And then that turned into the whisper.
Bob Cartwright 00:11:34 Oh, fantastic. Our last conversation was, what, 11 years ago? And I must put the links to that conversation for for people because, it's what seems to have changed for me is there's a whole new generation or more than one generation, several generations that are sort of come into the outdoors generally, and they're all going through the same education process.
Bob Cartwright 00:11:56 They're all going to the nearest shop or, well, obviously a bit more online these days, buying perhaps gear, which is, affordable for their particular budget and discovering that if they carry their fears and carry all their concerns with them, it's, you know, along the same lines as your £70 pack. It's not as heavy as that. I think people are probably realizing that once it hits 20 kilos, it's actually well beyond being too much. But there are people carrying an awful lot of stuff out. So have you found that the the people that obviously didn't follow the early part of your journey, but but sort of people when they're, I don't know, late 20s in the 20s now coming to backpacking, there's a whole new generation that that are unaware of the history of people like yourself that are sort of pioneered.
Glen Van Peski 00:12:44 Yeah, to some extent, I think I think they are benefiting from some of the pioneering work. because the mainstream, rucksacks and shelters and everything. The mainstream manufacturers, I think, were forced to go lighter by the early cottage manufacturers.
Glen Van Peski 00:13:01 But I think that people today probably have a a problem that you and I didn't have. Kind of the opposite problem is too much information. You know, there's so much out there now. You know, you've got the internet and YouTube and, blogs and everyone telling them, you know, their personal take on ultralight. I, I, you know, once they are aware of it, probably the challenge for them is sifting through the information and finding what's going to work for them, compared to you. And I were kind of making stuff and trying to hunt down the one person that was making the lightest cook set, you know? And now there's a hundred different options. so it's a different situation.
Bob Cartwright 00:13:45 Yeah. I think I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I mean, I think probably the Asian market who manufacture presumably all the titanium that we use generally outdoors. They've really grabbed hold of it and maintained the ethos quite early on. And you're right. I mean, the mainstream manufacturers sort of, I think initially probably ten, 15 years ago, gave it a nodding and nodding approach, thinking, well, make things a little bit lighter and they'll call it lightweight.
Bob Cartwright 00:14:13 And then they started to go back again. But now the I think perhaps no offense to your your sewing skills there on the G4, but but the design elements come into it now isn't it. Things are having to look sexy as well as as well as be particularly lighter.
Glen Van Peski 00:14:29 No that's true. I think some of the, you know, many certainly the G4 and and many of the early cottage manufacturers, you know, the products looked like they were put together by, no offense, you know, engineers or, you know, people hacking stuff in their garage. And it was the, the focus was on function. Not really what it looked like. and so definitely, I think the lightweight gear has gotten more streamlined. And, you know, it looks a little nicer than than the early products for sure.
Bob Cartwright 00:15:03 Well, your book just certainly goes through the, goes through a whole range of experiences and and education. The other thing that I think people have a problem with these days is because there is so much information and, you know, they they choose their particular influencer of choice who influences their particular ideas.
Bob Cartwright 00:15:22 And they want to buy everything all in one go and then go heading out into the hills. And of course, I'm a firm believer and I don't know if you are, but I think the the slow progress of realizing what you do need and what you don't need takes a while. And I think buying it all off the shelf, you can put yourself into quite a dangerous situation if you're not careful using lightweight gear straight off the shelf for the first time. If you've not really had much in the way of camping experience.
Glen Van Peski 00:15:49 Now, I would I would definitely agree with that. We used to in the Boy Scout troop, another scout leader and I used to do a Hans and Franz show where he would come with this huge big backpack all filled up with, you know, all this traditional stuff. And I would have my tiny backpack and we'd go through a skit where, you know, I'd say I was ready to go, and he'd say, that's impossible. And he'd pull something out, and I'd pull something out.
Glen Van Peski 00:16:16 He'd pull something out, and I'd pull something out. And, you know, we could see it was a way of showing, like I had everything covered just in a lighter way. And I had one parent come up after the skit and say, I want to buy everything you have in your pack. And it's like, no, that's that's not the way to do this. I always tell people like, when you're, you know, myself, I, I'm usually tweaking something, I'm trying something new out. And I tell people, try one maximum of two new things per trip. because, you know, you want to be slow to introduce variables that are going to impact you having a good experience. So, you know, until you figure out if the latest titanium spoon is the one you want or not, you know, go go easy on trying out new steaks, new tent, new sleeping bag and a new pack all at the same time.
Bob Cartwright 00:17:09 Sure, sure. Having scanned through your book, I've got hold of a copy yesterday, but the opening credits that I think might take people by surprise when, you have a comment there from Matthew McConaughey, the, the film staff actor.
Bob Cartwright 00:17:23 how did he get involved with with going on a hike with you?
Glen Van Peski 00:17:28 Well, he's.
Glen Van Peski 00:17:29 He's not a friend of mine. He's a friend of a friend. but he graciously, you know, allowed. Great. Gave me a blurb for the book. so a friend of mine is Dan Buettner. the blue Zones guy. he's a he's a super interesting guy. Like, world's most interesting guy. Probably. He's holds some Guinness World Records for cycling around the world or across Africa. And, has a very interesting group of friends. And I met him through John Mackey, co-founder, Whole Foods Market, and my business partner, for Gossamer Gear, which is a whole nother story about how that happened. But so I have what I call the list. It's a list of people, probably about 60 or 70 at this point that a couple times a year I will get permits for a trip and then send out a blind copy to the list for whoever can join me. And there's there's three criterias for being on the list.
Glen Van Peski 00:18:34 And I kind of stole this idea from, John Mackey. And, the first criteria is they have to be good, good company in the back country. so my shorthand for this is people that have something to say, but nothing to prove. you know, they're interesting people, but they're also interested people. There are people that are interested in the world around them and the people around them. they don't have to be the center of attention. And then the second criteria is that they've got their gear pretty well figured out, because I don't have the patience for taking, you know, beginner out backpacking. That's not really my strong point. and they should be reasonably fit because I tend to like to hike all day. so they're going to have more fun if they have some level of fitness. And the second two were somewhat negotiable depending on the trip and the final makeup. But the, you know, the first one, the good company, is definitely non-negotiable. and so I do a couple trips a year, usually in a standard trip I do every year typically is Buckskin Gulch.
Glen Van Peski 00:19:44 It's the longest slide canyon. Some say the world or us. I don't know, it's a it's a long slide and it's very beautiful. and it's nice to expose people to something amazing. I can provide trip Intel. You know, I have the permits, which are hard to get. and so they just need to show up. And so I invited Dan on a trip, and then he, you know, called me a week later, said, hey, can I bring a friend? It's like, okay, well, these trips usually fill up. And then a week later, oh, I got another friend that wants to go. So finally, I just made it. Dan, this will be your trip. Invite all the friends that you can up to the number of permits I have. And, Matthew McConaughey was one of one of his friends that wanted to go, so I he was on a trip down Buckskin Gulch.
Bob Cartwright 00:20:31 I'm sure he was fabulous company and had lots of stories to tell, but it's good to hear that he he fitted your criteria.
Bob Cartwright 00:20:37 But my interest in mentioning him is does he have a particular interest in the environment or the outdoors in particular.
Glen Van Peski 00:20:47 You know, he has an interest in adventures and new experiences. I wouldn't say he has a particular interest in, you know, backpacking or the outdoors or, things like that. I mean, he's he's always up for adventure, in life. And so I think that was probably the you know, why he said yes. When Dan said, hey, you want to go hike down a slot canyon? He hadn't done it and sounded like fun. And so, yeah. And he was, I mean, as you can imagine, obviously a great storyteller. but he was interested in other people's stories, too, so.
Bob Cartwright 00:21:26 Oh, good. As you said.
Glen Van Peski 00:21:26 Yeah, it was funny. there were parts of the slot canyon where I was. I ended up walking kind of behind him, and it's typically not crowded because it's limited permits. And, but occasionally we'd pass someone and you could see, like, I enjoyed watching their faces as they passed McConaughey and then came towards me and their faces were like, gosh, that guy.
Glen Van Peski 00:21:50 He looked exactly like Matthew McConaughey, but couldn't be down in the middle of a slight canyon, right? It's like, but wow, he sure looked exactly like him.
Bob Cartwright 00:22:01 Yeah, I should imagine there were lots of moments where you were watching the people around you reacting to somebody like that in their presence, which must be quite a shock, really, in the middle of nowhere. So, good fun. And again, another good story to tell on your next trip. Of course.
Glen Van Peski 00:22:15 Excellent. Yeah. No, it was great. you know, and we had lunch at, a Cafe Rio, which is kind of a chain, you know, fresh Mexican restaurant and chain in Utah. And so we had lunch there before we headed into the canyon and just, you know, people looking at our table and going, man, it looks like sounds like. But be at a taco place in Saint George, Utah. You know, like that, that doesn't compute. Yeah.
Bob Cartwright 00:22:45 Excellent. Brilliant.
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Bob Cartwright 00:23:11 Yeah, coming back to the book, which is obviously available in all good bookstores and online, of course. Let's let's actually touch on a few little practical things for people that are perhaps coming to it for the first time and have recently returned from a trip where they carried well over 20 UK. Well, getting towards the £70 mark, what are the sort of 3 or 4 things you suggest they do is a series of self-improvement as regards to make the trip more enjoyable, whether they're just sort of camping or going for a long walk.
Glen Van Peski 00:23:42 Well, I recommend people first take out every individual item that they carried and weigh it and then put it on a spreadsheet. And most people, when they do this are struck by a couple things. One, they're struck by how many items they brought on the trip.
Glen Van Peski 00:24:00 And usually they're also struck by how you have a lot of items that individually don't seem to weigh very much. But when you add them all up, they're at 2020 K. so once you've done that, you could sort by weight and look at the heaviest items. I mean, that's what I did, and that's why I sewed a backpack for myself because that was the heaviest item. so, you know, typically for most people, the, the big three are going to be your backpack or rucksack, your sleeping bag and your tent or shelter. And so those are areas obviously, if you can trim the weight of those, that's a good place to start. and then look at the I tell people, look at items that can do multiple uses. you know, if you if you can eat with just a spoon, well, then you don't need a spoon and a fork, for instance. and simple things, you know, if you can use a something like a bandana can be, you know, screened from sun and insects.
Glen Van Peski 00:25:05 It can be a pre-filter for your water. you can use a corner of it as a washcloth and the rest of it as a towel. So, you know, if you really get creative, you can leave a lot of things behind just by taking a cotton bandana. and so there's, you know, there's plenty of other examples. I have a whole chapter in my book about specifically honing into kind of the backpacking. But, you know, most people, the reason I think they pack too much or a couple one is they just don't they haven't ever taken a look at all the individual items. and the other is, as you mentioned. People tend to pack their fears. you know, I often say to people, show me your gear, and I can tell you what went wrong on your last trip. You know, if you have two heavy sleeping bags, like. Or, you know, a big down jacket was like, okay, you were cold on your last trip. or if they're packing too much food.
Glen Van Peski 00:26:00 Well, maybe you were hungry on your last trip. so it's important to, you know, develop criteria and and numbers that, you know, will work for you. And that's through experimentation, you know, bit at a time, as we talked about earlier. and then start to hone down on the, the number of things you take. through using multiple use items and then the amount that you take, you know, don't take an eight ounces of sunscreen, which I don't know if you're a kid, you bother with sunscreen. you know, take don't take eight ounces for a three day trip. Repackage things into smaller bottles.
Bob Cartwright 00:26:39 And of course, I suppose on top of that, these days everybody's taking, extra weight in cables, adapters and battery packs for technology. Technology has added an awful lot of weight, and I don't think people really consider as well.
Glen Van Peski 00:26:53 That is true. I know I looked at some of my old gear lists, like probably from the era that you and I last talked and I had a digital camera, you know, and that was it.
Glen Van Peski 00:27:03 And those were pretty darn light. and actually, you know, the phones are getting pretty amazing in the photography, but some of my favorite pictures are still ones taken on those old digital cameras. yeah. Knowing how to manage your technology can be very effective. I mean, I can get, through effective use of my iPhone, managing the battery. I can get 3 to 4 days without an extra battery pack. so that saves cables and the battery pack. so, yeah, learning how to manage your technology definitely can save weight.
Bob Cartwright 00:27:41 And I think it might be an age thing that. That shows the sort of age we are. But I remember going out without a mobile phone and anything else. It was just a compass and a map and I had a perfectly good time. So again, phones came along and everybody started carrying their fears about, well, what happens if what happens is, well, usually when you're in a place where you've got yourself into the brown sticky stuff, the phone's actually not much good to you anyway because there's no signal.
Bob Cartwright 00:28:05 So go figure, you know?
Glen Van Peski 00:28:07 Yeah. And that's why it's good to have some, you know, experience and knowledge and practice on actually being able to read a map, in case your phone's like, I don't, you know, I typically take my phone just for photos now, and maybe a little bit of note taking, although I still prefer pen and paper to that. because, you know, I carry a couple sheets of write in the rain paper and a pen that works on that, because the advantage of that is, if I need to leave a note for someone. I can't really do that on my phone. you know, but I can write on a piece of paper and give that to someone to transmit information or to leave it at a rock pile or something like that. so, yeah, typically the only thing I'm doing with my phone is taking pictures, so which helps preserve the battery. but if you know how to use a map instead of relying on your phone for following a GPS route, something like that.
Glen Van Peski 00:29:03 And the advantages of maps is you get to see, you know, if something happens and you need to change plans. If you've got a map, you can see the whole area. If you just have like your route on your phone, you don't know what your options are if you need to bail out, because all you have is the route that you've plugged in. So.
Bob Cartwright 00:29:23 Yeah, yeah. No, I totally agree. I've done quite a few trips in Scotland and there's been occasion where, stream might be in spate or whatever, and to actually see the bigger picture, as opposed to using two fingers on a, on a phone, trying to zoom in and zoom out and try and work out where, you know, a sensible route would be. I find it very frustrating and a map is certainly a great help. So but again, it's you know, it's a new generation coming through and they've not really had much experience of maps. And they're, they're, they're seeing the phones or the technology is being the answer.
Bob Cartwright 00:29:54 So again it's it's a conversation starter. Certainly. So in your view, I mean with your experience, you know, what gives you the most pleasure then planning for a trip undertaking the trip, recording the trip, looking back on it or reflecting on it, you know, achieving your goal when you get to the end.
Glen Van Peski 00:30:16 when some of those are tied together. So I'm, I think in the background, I don't know that you can see a sleeping bag and jacket. I'm currently got gear strewn out because I'm leaving Thursday for, three days in emigrant wilderness. And, definitely planning the trip is, is, you know, I enjoy that. what gear am I going to take? I mean, at this point my gear lists are usually pretty honed, but one thing I do is I pull up my notes from the last time I took a similar trip, either the same season or the same area. and review that for notes that I made on those little pieces of paper like, oh yeah, next time, you know, take like last time I went to wilderness, I didn't have gators.
Glen Van Peski 00:31:02 And, you know, I didn't really need them, but there were some areas where it would have been nice to keep the gravel out of my shoes. And so, you know, I have made a note and this time I'll be taking gators. So, you know, looking back on the trip is something that I try and do before I take the next trip so that I, I learn it. I have, you know, have taken trips and made the same mistake again when I look back at the notes going, oh yeah, that's right. I learned this lesson the last time and I guess I just learned it again. So but mostly I enjoyed being out there. I mean, that's the that's the goal for me is just being out there, with as little weight as I can to enjoy the experience as much as I can.
Bob Cartwright 00:31:45 And certainly I your book has reminded me you really enjoy the the walking literally dawn till dusk, as opposed to sort of camping earlier and, and having, you know, 4 or 5 hours watching the sun go down, it sounds like your preference is to, is to walk the distance as opposed to walk between pretty campsites.
Glen Van Peski 00:32:05 Yeah. Yeah, definitely I tend to I don't sit well, I tend to and I the other thing is I don't typically pack for sitting around. you know, I'm figuring for the coldest part of the day, I'm going to be in my sleeping bag so I don't carry a big heavy jacket, big heavy hat, any kind of bottom insulation, typically, because I'm not sitting around in the cold. you know, I'm camping in the arid American West, so typically you're not around a campfire at night. so if you're sitting around either in the morning or the evening, you know, it's going to be cold. And so you need extra clothes. And typically I don't have those extra clothes because I figure I'm either going to be walking or I'm going to be in my sleeping bag.
Bob Cartwright 00:32:49 Sure, sure.
Bob Cartwright 00:32:50 And going back to what you were just saying prior to that about preparing for a trip, everybody's got a different routine, but it sounds like you're possibly similar to me. I tend to sort of a week before I go.
Bob Cartwright 00:33:00 I start to get everything out and then move it up and down. And as you say, if I've got any notes or remind myself what I, forgot or or required the previous trip, but you started off by talking about cycle touring that you've been doing. So is there much of a difference approach that you've got to that as well? Is there any particular area that's that's changed there for you from traditional panniers and going that way?
Glen Van Peski 00:33:25 Well, yeah, that's been interesting. it came up recently that actually the bicycle, the cycle tour I did when I was 17 is still the longest adventure I've ever had. I, cycled 4200 miles. So what's that? I don't know, six, 7000km across the United States, the big country. when I graduated high school, and, you know, I had panniers. I did mail gear back, at least once, maybe twice during that trip. You know, as I kind of figured out what I didn't need and how little I could get by on, but then really didn't cycle tour again and obviously been a part of and experienced and benefited from the revolution or evolution in backpacking gear, but hadn't really followed it in terms of cycling gear.
Glen Van Peski 00:34:23 So, got a new bicycle and that was a revelation because it looked nothing like the bicycle that I had cycled across the country 50 years before, or 45 years before. and so, yeah, you know, packing for, for the cycling trip was interesting because the weight of the, bags was so much more. I mean, I can throw everything in my, murmur pack, which, you know, weighs 220g. but on a bicycle, because I didn't want panniers, it was split up into a bunch of smaller bags, each of which, you know, together, they probably weigh 2 or 3 times the weight of my, rucksack when I'm going backpacking. so that was interesting. And the other thing was how compact things were, became an issue, you know, because I had limited space that I wanted to use. and you couldn't I didn't have much extra pockets, you know, like on a rucksack. You can just throw extra stuff in the outside pockets. so it was a it was a good challenge trying to modify my gear for, for ultralight cycle touring.
Bob Cartwright 00:35:40 And did you manage to buy things off the shelf or did you end up getting the sewing machine out again?
Glen Van Peski 00:35:47 I mostly bought stuff off the shelf. I did make myself a frame bag to fit in the frame because I wanted every last centimeter of space, so I made it custom to fit my bicycle. I ended up sewing some custom lightweight, bags that could go on the front fork. And then, of course, I designed the tent, for the trip. because that was something that I needed. Smaller and lighter than than what I had.
Bob Cartwright 00:36:20 And reflecting on that trip, what was the item or items that you feel that you actually should have taken or created to, to make it just that little bit more pleasurable?
Glen Van Peski 00:36:30 You know, I was surprised everything worked. Everything worked well. I mean, we did a couple of years later, we did another 700km on the Great Divide. And, I think I changed very little. everything everything worked fine.
Bob Cartwright 00:36:48 Brilliant. Good. The other thing that that I've noticed, obviously, is as well the last ten years, I guess the other areas of outdoor activities, such as paddling, motorcycle camping, it's another one, I guess.
Bob Cartwright 00:36:59 And general travelling. Have you noticed that people from those different interests have also started to take on board? That they don't need to bulk out everything that they carry with them at all?
Glen Van Peski 00:37:11 Yeah, I have noticed that. I've seen, seen motorcycle touring. and that always intrigues me, but I haven't done any of it. but we've done a fair amount of Franci and I and my wife have done a fair amount of, like, adventure travel overseas. and, you know, that's an area where we see people in the Airports with giant bags. And, you know, I've discovered I can I can go with our, you know, our vagabond. you know, this is, you know, I can go. I've been for eight weeks in Europe, hiking all day, walking all day, going out to eat at a nice restaurants at night. just in that. So, Yeah, I think adventure travel is definitely an area that people could, could take less by applying some of the same principles.
Glen Van Peski 00:38:03 I mean, you you don't have you don't have to worry about. Typically, depending on how you're doing, it's shelter sleeping bags. So you've just got clothing to figure out, clothing, you know, first aid, some food, snacks, things like that. So but you can apply the same principles to drastically reduce the the amount of stuff you carry.
Bob Cartwright 00:38:21 Sure, sure.
Bob Cartwright 00:38:21 And just to give people an idea who listening to this and perhaps not watching the video, that was what about a 30 liter bag? Was it?
Glen Van Peski 00:38:29 That sounds about right.
Glen Van Peski 00:38:30 Yeah.
Bob Cartwright 00:38:31 Well, I mean, the book is is full of little antidotes and stories and interesting viewpoints, which I'm sure will help a lot of people interested in taking the next step, perhaps, and improving their enjoyment. Now, as I understand it, you're the profits of the book are all going to a particular organization.
Glen Van Peski 00:38:49 Yeah, I'm lucky to be blessed. The point in life where, you know, a little additional income is going to make a difference.
Glen Van Peski 00:38:55 In my lifestyle, we already give away a big chunk of our income. So, yeah, I decided to to donate all profits from the book to the Pacific Crest Trail Association. the Pacific Crest Trail runs 2650 miles. So was it 3500km or so from Mexico to Canada, across the entire western United States, of California, Oregon and Washington. So I've hiked, a big chunk of it, most of it, and served on the board of the PCA. So it just seemed a natural choice to, you know, donate the profits to help them in their mission to preserve, protect and promote a trail that is enjoyed by people from all over the world.
Bob Cartwright 00:39:40 Fantastic.
Bob Cartwright 00:39:40 Yeah, I'm sure the greatly appreciate that. well, a final question, Glenn. You have had this question before because I checked out our past conversation 11 years ago, and, I don't know, I asked it, so I'm going to ask it again. Of all the things I could have asked you about your new book, what should I have asked you?
Glen Van Peski 00:40:01 well, you.
Glen Van Peski 00:40:02 Could have asked.
Glen Van Peski 00:40:02 Me.
Glen Van Peski 00:40:04 What people are getting out of it. what is the thing that, you know, everyone's in a different place, and so they get something different out of the book. But the two things that keep coming up are, one, the value of changing your perspective. And you've probably experienced this on on trips or in life? I mean, you can tell two stories about it. Probably any backpacking trip you take, you know, it was terrible. There were there were bugs. We had to stream crossing and camping in the mud or whatever. Or there's probably also another true story you could tell about, oh, the sunset was amazing. And, you know, we met those cool people from Germany and had a great conversation with them. Or, you know, the beer we had in the pub afterwards was the best we ever had. And so, you know, how you think about life trips and life in general depends on the story you tell. and we probably all know people that are hung up on the bad stories and can't see the good.
Glen Van Peski 00:41:12 but you can flip that story and, you know, focus on the good and enjoy life a lot more because everyone's life has good and bad in it. the other thing that seems to be people seem to be getting out of the book is I talk about generosity and how that can change your life and how to be more intentional with your generosity. And this started for us years and years ago. We started diverting, in the beginning, a small percentage of our income into a separate checking account. And then, as needs come across our paths, we have money to address those. We don't have to respond to those only if we feel like we have money because we have money, you know? Now it's set aside just for helping out others. And it could be traditional charities that, speak to you or, you know, a friend just lost their job or needs money for cancer treatment or whatever the case may be. and I have, you know, lots of stories when we have how we've been able to meet needs because we were intentional planning ahead, setting money aside.
Glen Van Peski 00:42:21 And that's something that a number of people have said spoke to them. And they've gone on to create, you know, a separate checking account. And fund that on a regular basis so that they, you know, they have money to be more intentional in their giving.
Bob Cartwright 00:42:36 My thanks to Glenn for taking the time to talk in detail about his experiences and share some of what he's learned. Of course, there is much more in the book, which is available in the UK and US on Amazon in hardcopy, Kindle and audiobook. Glenn has very generously given me two hard copies to give away in the US and two audiobooks for the UK. So to get your hands or ears on a copy, all you need to do is make sure that you follow my Instagram account, which is the underscore outdoors underscore station. Then click on the podcast post number 575 and leave a comment stating where you're located, your town and country. All entries will be put into a hat, and I'll contact the winners via Instagram for their details when it's drawn in a couple of weeks time before the end of October.
Bob Cartwright 00:43:36 If you are new to backpacking and camping, it is a wealth of information and ideas, and if you're more experienced, it's a great reminder of things you may have forgotten. And that's it folks. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation and some of the content. I'm just lining up my next interview, which I'll be recording later in this week, and that will be with you very soon. As always, folks, take care out there and bye for now.
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